Well, at least you are not being stopped at the airport because they believe you are a terrorist threat. Interesting.

WOW, that's one I haven't heard of before.  

Best of luck to you in getting the lender to get their head on straight!  

So would they kill the deal if something turned up under your SSN? Seems like a lawsuit in the making!

Well that's a first...I always say it used to be if you breathed you got a loan and now it is giving up your first born.  Times continue to change...

Cindy in Indy

There are 'watch lists' and some other Donna was bad, and probably involved in fraud and today every company is running away and double checking EVERYTHING to be sure there is NO fraud in any transactions.  It happens some times, luckilly not that often, and is usually cleared up pretty quickly.. I have never had a loan delayed because of it.... but have seen the red flag be tossed up.

Donna - Just give them the SSN of the LifeLock Guy who has is SSN plastered on the side of city busses. 

Melissa, No, but they have gone through my bags before and the pat down where they undo your belt! Very uncomfortable!

Meridian, I hadn't either...

Doug, It makes you wonder!!

Cindy, And their first born is so cute, they won't be giving her up!

Robert, But I'm not the one getting the loan, which is what makes no sense.

Mark, Cute... however, they looked me up while I was on the phone and they want to see the social and the name match.

That is crazy...

I'm with Doug.. I'd call one of the attorneys at TAR if I were you. I'd be infuriated. Nowhere in our licensure requirements or COE does it require us to do something so incredibly stupid. I wouldn't give them my social and call their bluff with a letter head from a RE attorney. Idiots.

Wow this is a new one to me.  I know I am canadian, but I have never heard of this anywhere.  People nowadays are so nervous about giving out their personal information to get a mortgage, but this is ridiculous!!

Donna - this is a new one to me too.  I guess the more the government tries to "help" them more they screw it up.  Several years ago my son used to fly back and forth between myself and his mother and his name was on a list, we always had to jump through a few extra hoops at check in.  And oh yeah he was 12!

Hi Donna... this is insanity.  Did you actually give it to them?

Donna - I had a lender require, not request, require I send them a copy of my driver's license otherwise the closing package would not be sent out because another Michelle Gibson is on the naughty list.  What does this have to do with us or our clients???

Holly, I agree!

Greg, I didn't want to hold up this closing any longer than necessary.

Lesley, But I'm not getting the mortgage!

Jim, Back and forth isn't even part of their "one-way" issues...

Steve, Yes, but not in writing. I gave it verbally as she typed directly into the system so there was no written record of it. She said the screen cleared as soon as it spit out the information.

I have nothing more to say but WOW!

Ugh!!!  All these stupid lists and they do absolutely no good whatsoever.  I'm sorry you had to deal with this.

The banks, specifically underwriters, are out of control.  I had a buyer's bank refuse to fund until they could clear up a loan condition for the seller.  It looked like a short sale but wasn't and yet they still wouldn't budge on funding until we cleared the condition.  Ridiculous!

I have heard of this too.  Really weird.

WOW.  That is a new one.  Do they want your Brokers SS# or their TID#  as well? 
This is a first for me.  Now I know I've heard everything.  Did you do the loan as well?

I wouldn't have given it to them, until I talked to an attorney. I would have told them I was going to do that, too.

Donna - Wow!  This is a new one on me!  It makes absolutely no sense for them you need an agents ssn or any other private info.  What's next, our tax returns and bank statements?!?!  Hopefully that was a one time freaky thing!

Unbelievable!  Never heard that one before!  I wouldn't give it to them.

Good luck!

Thanks,

Mario

Who is the lender?

Well that is a new one! Aren't regulations and banks already throwing up enough roadblocks for home buyers who need financing? Crazy!

Donna, get this...in one of my closings earlier this year, the lender required a letter from the female buyers PARENTS saying they didn't think her fiance (who would be living in the home as well) was going to go rogue or destroy the property. Like THAT was worth the paper it was printed on! They wrote it, in order to get the couple into the home, but talk about out of line!

I currently have a cash buyer on a short sale...the 3rd party bank is asking for the buyers social security #, date of birth, address and phone numbers for each.

What the heck for?  I refused the DOB and social SS# (blamed it on buyers attorney) and so far no problem.

 

Eve in Orlando

Donna,

What the heck does it have to do with the transaction?

I would refuse and tell them that there is absolutely no reason why you should give out your SS#. I was a victim of ID theft twice and I would refuse it if anyone asked for mine unless it's relative to whatever the business is. Tell them you'll give them one number...your Real Estate license number and that's it. They cannot force you to and you let them know under the privacy act that they have no right to know it. Tell them you've been advised by your attorney not to give it out to anyone. Total and untter such nonsense!

Donna, I suggested this for feature and forgot to leave a comment. I simply find this outrageous! There must be a complaint to file somewhere, an attorney to attack them, whatever.

It gets SO frustrating when each day it seems like it's harder to get deals closed.

What you are referring to is the LDP/GSA search. It is one of the fraud detection measures that lenders are required to run.  LDP is Limited Denial of Participation.  These are people/entities that are not allowed to participate in HUD transactions. 

The GSA search is for the Excluded Parties List System.  All parties involved in the transaction are matched against this database.  That includes the loan officer, both real estate agents, buyers, sellers,appraiser, etc and the companies names.  Basically, all parties who will receive a direct compensation as a result of the loan's closing. 

This report is also now being run on conventional loans in additional to FHA and VA.  Its easy for everyone to say lenders are being too strict, but if there is fraud, it's the lender that bears the cost of it.  No one ever comes back to the agent asking for them to return the commission that they received on the transaction. 

The surprising part is that you have not come up on the list before.  Maybe the person of the same name was recently added.

i would offer them an affadavit stating that you and the other donna harris are not one and the same.

suggestion #2 -contact your local us senator or representatives office and enlist their help. in the big picture you need to clear this up as it may happen again.

Here is the link on the HUD website to the policy.

I don't know if this is where they search for your name Donna, but luckily I didn't come up...

https://www.epls.gov/epls/search.do?reset=true&ssn=true

Wow, this is a new learning experience for me.

Michelle, Driver's license? What if you were in NY and didn't have one, as many of them don't?

Renee, I know!

Bryan, Who cares what the seller is doing when the buyers are getting the loan??

Christa, I thought so!

Gary, No, I'm not doing the loan...

Lynda, Just trying to not hold up closing.

Jeanna, I hope so...

There is absolutely no way in Hell that I would give my SSN to a Lender for somebody else's loan, unless I was a co-signer.

Stand your ground, Donna.

Let them get one from the loan officer. If there is any fraud to worry about don't you think they should be making sure of that and not the agent? Your a Realtor and let them call your broker..I still wouldn't be giving it to them even if it holds up the closing.

I havn't heard that one before either!!!  Interesting post!

Happened to me a few weeks ago.  Let's face it our names may be ours but apparently they also belong to some others who aren't quite as ethical as we are.  They accepted my RE license as ID since it showed my middle name was not the same as the one on the GSA list

Happened to me before.

Apparently someone with my exact name and middle initial committed a mortgage fraud and I had to prove it wasn't me by providing my SSN.  I decided to do it after talking to the loan officer a couple times and only then because they are a large reputable lender.

Although it was definitely something I was uncomfortable about - I wasn't going to let that get in the way of my clients buying the house they wanted.

Rodney, how does someone end up on the GSA list?  If someone involved in the transaction is truly on the list, does that mean the loan will be rejected?  For example, the appraiser is on the list.  Now that person can't get paid for their work?  Would the lender redo the appraisal with a new appraiser in order to get the loan to go through?  Who will be paying for that second appraisal?

 

Wish lending was more straightforward and fully disclosed the process to everyone.  I believe it's more convoluted than it really needs to be.

Donna, I should have seen that coming and warned you! Google Dena Stevens : I'm a psychic REALTOR who practices gynecology :) Seriously, google me!

Rodney #28 had it right, but not all of it.

A real estate salesperson can show up on this list if they have government liens against them - for example, you owe back federal taxes to the IRS. The new rules require that no one who is in arrears to the govenment may benefit from a government loan transaction. If you were on that list, you would have to turn the transaction over to your broker or another agent for it to close. Lenders are now required to investigate all agents party to a sale. Technically, you would not be paid, I believe, unless your broker or another agent helped you out under the table, so to speak.

You can't refuse to give your SSN if the lender asks. The deal will not close.

Of course, they ignore the possibility that if a person who was behind on their taxes could get paid, they might actually PAY the back taxes! Now, if you owe back taxes you are a worse villain than illegal immigrants who smuggle in drugs and shoot at Border Patrol officers!

Your tax dollars at work!

I would have asked for an email request for my SS# from their supervisors manager! That way you can have it on record in case any thing goes wrong....

I have had my identity stolen and it is not fun.I still can not write checks at major department stores and some grocery stores! Thanks goodness for debit and charge cards! I only used debit cards now. That too has limitations since they are not insured by most banks.

You have to be careful these days!

Coming to you from Texas,,,,

 

Hahahaha - It's the old adage "He who has the gold makes the rules" Give them your tax id number. My Social Security Card atates " Not for Identification" OOPS! Showing my age as th enew ones don't say that

Mario, I didn't want to, but did.

George, What does it matter? Apparently it's for all FHA and VA loans and it just started carrying over for Conventional loans.

Bruce, Another Detour sign!

Sarah, You've gotta be kidding me!!

Eve, Why should they care? It's the seller's loan in default!

Neal, I did, but not in writing so there is no record of it. Part of the COE says we can't do something that holds up a closing.

Aaron, Thanks for the feature suggestion...

Rodney, I already responded via email. I still find it ridiculous when it's never come up before and this lady has been on the watch list since 2001.

Jay, They wanted "proof".

Mark K, I did not appear when I entered my info on that site...

Fred, I stood as long as I could without jeopardizing my buyers' loan approval.

Chris A, Thanks.

Cindy, I could see your name being a common one...

Bill W, That's how I felt. I spoke directly with the processor.

Marie, I would be interested to know about your example.

Dena, I'm in the obituaries all the time and am also a pro golfer!

Virginia, That sounds wrong, so very wrong. They would prevent someone from making a living?

Sussie, I have the email, in which I said I would not provide it via email...

Doug, My TIN is my social. I don't have another number except a driver's license number or my real estate license number.

Donna they aren't "trying to find any excuse to not allow people to buy homes." They are trying to cover their a$$es anyway they can (no matter how ridiculous).  Why am I not suprised by this?

Would not like giving social security number to someone for an unknown reason---- our 2 cents.

Donna,

Yup, it happens doesn't it. Sometimes we want to stand our ground and scream 'Not on my watch'. When we do that our closing never seem to happen and our clients get very aggravated...

-Brent

This has actually come up with someone in our office.  They use the social security number to determine that you are not that person.  If you are that person, the loan won't be processed.

I had a lender call after a loan was in underwriting for about a week ask for a copy of my drivers license since there's another Jonathan Hall that is on the FHA fraud database. I sent it in at 6 PM at night, and at 10 in the morning, we got the clear to close. When I called the listing agent in the morning to explain what happened, she got a good laugh about it since the rest of the selling process was a breeze.

That's scary with all the identity fraud.  It's not like the commission is paid to you "PERSONALLY".  I would say that they should get the Broker/Owner Firm's federal ID #  (IRS).

Seems to me that if your license is in good standing, the banks shouldn't be able to overrule that and prevent you from receiving earned income. I guess it's just part of the times we live in.

Hi Donna:

That's really outrageous.  Sometimes it seems that the banks don't want to close on these houses.

Wow, this one's a first for me. I do wonder, though. If they are telling you they want your ss#, and you don't give it to them, would your buyer clients not get the house? Could this be the ultimate in "do what it takes" for you clients?

Hi Donna~  I guess you learn something new every day!  This is news to me.  I would be having a hard time with that one!

Wow! That's ridiculous!!!  I'd be furious!  And your poor buyers!  Kind of hard for them to give referrals when the banks are making the process so hard because of something associated with their agent's name.  Not any fault of yours, but that's just horrible!  Hope it works out for the best for you!

That's insane!  I can't believe it, that's ridiculous! That is the epitome of stupidity!

Hi Donna, that is crazy. What is next?

Donna

It seems there is one scam after another.

Good luck and success.

Lou Ludwig

OOhh my god, i can't believe this!  it's very insane, I'm wondering what will happen with this whole enchilada and guacamole in the near future?

I would say great let's trade, you give me yours first and I will give you mine. 

OR 

 

Give them the tax ID # of the brokerage. Unless you are the principle it is not your transaction anyway, it is the brokers and your contract is with the broker.

I was asked by B of A for my clients SS on a short sale, but now companies are asking for the agents SS? I wouldn't do it, what business do they want with a agents SS? Like someone said give them the brokers tax id#

I guess my theory about logic and banks not allowed in the same sentence comes into play here.  This reminds me of the lender who asked my seller for all of the receipts of his renovation to justify the profit.  (The 2 appraisals did not peak their interest.)These lenders should be shut down!!  Find a career path where stupidity is the first requirement.........................chris

Sounds about right. Banks are controlingthe real estate market right now. Their rules make no sense to normal people. Banks are pissing me off on a daily basis.

Pretty crazy story.  Never heard of them asking for a Realtor's SS number. 

Donna,

Sorry, Get used to it!

See Ryan #28. It is a check that we all run now- 99% of the time nothing shows up, but when it does- we have to handle it. (see how much fun it is).

We have lots of checks now: MERS; Fraud Alert; 4506T; Core Logic; HVCC ect... (every Realtor that I show the list to is shocked)

This is the reality now. This is how Banks think now:

Buyers are supposed to have 20% down now. They are supposed to have great credit (why wouldn't they?). They are supposed to have a great job history?

Not saying this is right, I hate it, but this is how it is now, so set the right expectations with your buyers; get a Great Lender and learn to embrace it- because it is not going away.

The Lenders that will read this post, will say "what is the big deal? All you have to do is give your SS# and then close the deal? Wow, you got off Light, that's nothing!

Sad, but True!

 

My first knee jerk reaction was an outraged "oh, H*LL no!" This post was a real eye opener, and the knowledgeable lender comments about LDP/GSA are very appreciated.  I will bring this up at the next office meeting, I never knew also about the IRS tax liens possibly affecting a sales commission.  Thanks AR members for this informative post! I learn something new every day.

That's outragious. I'd tell your Broker, to address this before the Board President and higher if need be. Completely inappropriate in my opinion.

Banks are doing all they can to kill about every deal. I never heard of that and you just need to prove you are not who you say you are. yeah, some where in my head that makes sense

Dave

Since in Texas we have to have our fingerprints taken to get a licence, I do not see that they should be able to require more than the RE licence number.  That said, as someone noted, lenders are definitely practicing the Golden RULE - he who has the gold, makes the RULES.  (And since the government seems to believe that in fact ALL the 'gold' really belongs to IT, they have no compunctions about making just about any dam' rules they please.)

This comes up almost every time I have a closing on an FHA loan. My name is Michael Smith so I am apparently on every list, unfortunately. They generally ask for your SS# but I always get away with just providing my drivers license.

Sorry, but NOBODY gets my SS# for a real estate transaction unless I AM the one getting the loan.  Sounds like possible fraud on their part.  

I don't EVER get my clients SS# for my file, either.  When I worked for a large franchise years ago, we had a secretary that was taken out of the office in handcuffs, because she was arrested for IDENTITY THEFT, and nobody at the office even knew she was doing it.  She had stolen 22 identities.  Since that day, I NEVER get a client's SS#, and I refer anyone needing it directly to the client.  

If I were you, I'd consult an attorney about the fact that the mortgage company for your clients wants YOUR SS#, and have him draft a letter to let them know it won't be happening.

Everything that is going on now is CYA nonsense. The bank making the loan is not really lending the money as they will just sell the loan to Fannie/Freddie. Therefore, the bank is afraid that if they miss something that Fannie/Freddie won't buy the loan, or would later require the bank to buy it back. Since the banks are not dumb enough to loan money in the face of a declining housing market and economy, this possibility terrifies them.

It's utterly amazing what is being required to close on a house nowadays!!!

I'm with Doug, too.  Get a lawyer.  This is just dumb...or maybe there really is a consipiracy against buyers.  It makes me wonder if they've been told to try to squelch deals so the bank would get more from the govt buyout stuff.  Very suspicious.

That sounds outrageous! Mind boggling and as you said, why now? If they are not getting a gov't loan then why is Gov all up in it in the first place? Sigh...it just keeps getting weirder by the day~

Maybe a fair compromise would be to provide the last 4 of the social... they can eliminate or match based on that!

Maybe a fair compromise would be to provide the last 4 of the social... they can eliminate or match based on that!

That's absolute nonsense. I would not give them my number. I'm sure with all the names in our country that you are bound to have your like-name on a list somewhere for something. I'm not sure about giving your number and once keyed in it will disappear or spit it out thing. Keystrokes can be recorded, or the person to whom you might give it to.

I don't agree with Ben at all (#67), I will not get used to it. And I refuse to do it. We need to push back and tell the banks they are not in charge.

This is ridiculous. One technique I use occasionally is to tell someone to explain, or in this case, request what they want ... in writing. Most often, you get what you want because noone knows how to write a letter any more, or go through getting a letter approved,

This first worked in late '70s when I applied for my first credit card from American Express. They turned me down as I didn't have any credit history > 2 yrs, i.e. had only been paying my school loan back for 1.5 years. I asked them to send me a letter in writing explaining why I was being turned down ... and a few days later, my credit card arrived!

Good luck & let us know what happens.

Banks = bullies; Insurance companies = bullies, you get the point. They pull this stuff because thay get away with it and because buyers and borrowers want what it is they have control over.

Simply put, you are not buying the home or getting the loan. You are not a party to the contract. Sign an arms-length affidavit and that's it. Social security number, I think not.

Buyers should never get too emotionally involved with a purchase, it makes for bad business decisions. Agents should treat a transaction the same way. Never want it beyond a good business decision.

This came up at one of our local meetings but no real answer as to why it necessarily involves the agent. I can just say it is another CRAAAZY evolution of the financial meltdown!

Ron Wood

The price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance!

What's also amazing is that social security numbers are not supposed to be used for identification purposes. If there's a question of identity a passport or other government id should be requested.

Donna, by though at most is to give only the last four as well.

Big Brother is watching! Just amazing.

OK, here is a little lender side info:

First, I am a lender for 20-years, and I have NEVER been asked to get the Real Estate Agents SSN.

With that said, any time your buyer is using FHA or VA financing, we have to run EVERYONE involved in the transactions (including you) through LDP/GSA. Buyers, sellers, appraiser, lender, loan officer, title company, and both listing and buying agents. We run names. NOT Social Security Numbers.

This is essentially a fraud check done. It is NOT new. It has been going on for years.

It is now coming over to the conforming side too... and the new amount of checking done behind the scenes would amaze you.

The biggest behind the scenes check that causes problems are appraisal "field reviews" and "desk reviews". Essencially, a licensed and trained professional (the appraiser) phyically goes out to the home, reviews comps, and provides a valuation. As soon as it gets to the underwriter, no matter how the underwriter feels about the accuracy or correctness of the appraisal, they are forced to run it through some stupid automated system to "validate" the numbers.  If the appraisal falls outside the computer check, a desk review (done in the office by a seperate appraiser and costs about $150), or a field review (a seperate appraiser goes out to the home, but doesn't go in - and costs about $250) are performed.

My experience is that 98% of these come back saying the initial appraisal was fine, yet we just added a week (or more) delay to the file.

As for your SNN request? Got me?? I'd find out what they want it for, and if legitimate - give it to them and close.

 

Well, I was as shocked as most on here until I read some of the comments about the fact this is is just how it is now and is a requirment if your name comes up on any of these lists.  If you want the deal to close you have to prove who you are if you share your name with someone on one of those lists.  I'm glad I read this because I would have fought it if it happened to me, but now I know it is reality.

If you searched your name on the ELP website, there is someone by the same name in Mississippi that is on the list and has been since 2001. This really makes me glad I have an unusual name!

BIG brother out of control !!

As has been mentioned above, checking the LDP/GSA lists is a legal requirement for the lender. This has been the case for many, many years. In fact, if one person at your company ends up on the list due to fraud, your entire company is barred! And if you refuse to help the mortgage lender "clear your name", your client will not close their loan. It is that simple. Lenders, and taxpayers, have had enormous losses due to fraud by the parties who generate and process the transactions...and yes, as much as you don't want to hear it, that includes the real estate agents. A whole lot of them. A whole lot of them who had already gone through fingerprinting, background checks, licensing and so on.

Anyone worried about identity theft should realize that giving out your SSN in a case like this is a VERY low risk compared to other activities in your life. The same people who freak out about giving out their SSN commonly carry blank checks around with them as if this carried lower risk than giving out their government ID number. People involved in the real estate/finance industries should take simply freeze their credit and not have to worry about things like this. 

You need not put in a correct social security for Equator I know.....I was told by the Executive Office to just put in 123-45-6789

Banks or lenders are in the business to make money, aren't we? Unfortunately, they must abide by federal and state laws and so do we, don't you? Most agents were not aware of this procedure nor the reasons why and now that they do, many feel justified to criticize the lenders for complying with the law.

The landscape is changing and if agents aren't aware of the new terms and conditions in our industry and the mortgage industry, challenges will occur and could have adverse consequences for you or your clients. Until we change the lawmakers, we must comply, so we better get used to it or find another profession that is less regulated.

Sorry you are going through this but the explination of why is very simple

 

This other person w same name as you is on a fraud watch list. Since this is a FC they need to do a background check and make sure you arent the same person who has been comiiting the fraud.

 

This should have been something that comes up EARLY in the transaction like when the commitment was issued

 

I have had it happen before and resolved quickly

 

Loan should NOT have been CTC until this stip was cleared but again this stip should have been on there from day 1 of the commitment.

If the loan fails, if there is any possiblity of loan fraud by your clients or any sospician that you were a part of any conspiracy of fraud in any way they now can come after you for as long as the statute of limitations allow because they can now track you, even if you get out of real estate and move out of state.  Scary thought.

From a wanting to keep everything easy and everybody happy perspective I do not believe that there is a mortgage guy/gal who wants to bring this request to the R/E Agent. With that said, FHA (a/k/a the Government) has has lists list GSA, LPD & CAVIRS forever. These checks have been in place for the about the same amount of time, they have become a more prominent sore spot of late...and will continue.

Somebody commented that it is getting harder to buy a house...I would say buying a house albeit a task is not getting harder; borrowing money is.

A bigger concern is that with the ever-changing landscape of lending and the heightened involvement of the Government when will these "lists" be created and implemented for Conventional loans too. Big Brother is in our business and is going away no time soon.

Donna, my advice would be to listen to the Realtors before me who said "don't provide it", "they can't make you do it" etc.

Remember the basic law of physics that says for every action there is an equal reaction.

So if you decide, not to provide your social security number two things will happen:

1) Your deal won't close!

2) This will happen again on your next transaction that involves FHA/VA financing.

FHA has had a database for years of all the parties to real estate transactions, it includes escrow, title, loan officers and Realtors, buyers and sellers.

If they see a number of defaults attached to any one of the parties involved, they will investigate further. It's fraud prevention plain and simple.

The cynic in me might say that those who oppose this are also opposed to fraud prevention, but that's just a random thought.

 

 

It would be a cold day in he!! before I gave my SS# to anyone.  My doctor doesn't even have my SS# and when a form asks for it, I give them my DL# instead and in all the years I have been doing that, nobody has ever said one word about it.

Your SS# is your lifeline in this world and once you give it up, you open yourself up to all kinds of risks that can easily be avoided by not giving our info out, especially to a lender.  Yes I had to give up my SS# to my lender when I did my re-fi but I understand there are rare exceptions to the rule and that is one of them.

Stop giving out your personal info to people that don't need it.  You will sleep better at night!

I thought it was bad enough when the seller's lender wanted my buyer's SSN when working through the thrid party approval on a short sale. I think this really crosses the line.

I wonder what Elizabeth Warren will have to say about this?

 

Wow I would never give my Social out to anyone like Russell - sounds fishy - watch out...

I've heard this happening with FHA, but not on Conventional; but if you really look at Conventional Loans, then they are (currently) Government Loans.  Who's in control of Fannie and Freddie?  The US Government.  An interesting article/blog that I read recently regarding what may happen to Fannie and Freddie in the very near future.  I hope you don't mind, but here's the link (click here).

They are doing their due diligence.  Your SSN and name combo will prove that you are not THAT Donna Harris and the transaction goes forward.  But be sure you know exactly what they want it for and how they will use it.  And once they've proven that you are not HER, then try to make sure they do not keep your SSN on file anywhere (fat chance, they're gonna paper their rear-end with triplicates!)

 

Yet another completely boneheaded development in the ongoing lending nightmare.  Most of the people in our country have no clue as to how nonsensical lending and government guidelines have become unless they have personally experienced one of these situations.  The situation has been on a slide for the last two years in terms of denying credit worthy buyers while creating ever more opportunities for people to get in over their heads (community reinvestment act loans wit INCOME MAXIMUMS, et al).  I have written to all of my Congressmen (and women) about some of the absurd lending situations that I have faced as a Seller and as a Buyer's agent in the last two years.  Our representation has no clue regarding the stupid situations that are now a fact of life, such as the one you describe. 

Thanks for sharing another of these new gotchas.  Unbelievable.

In this day and time, and with the advanced networked systems, I'm sure that you will see mor automated C.Y.A. requests/double and triple checked information etc. I admit to not having read all of the comments, Just yours and a couple of others. The fraud Watch response seems possible. It also appears that you did everything needed to make everything move forward. Not sure if Texas is a "fiduciary" state.... but you did put your client's needs ahead of your own..... WELL DONE!

Another (couple of) point(s). 

By providing inaccurate (false) info (a DL instead of your SSN), you open yourself up to all kinds of legal issues. 

With the mindset that has taken over Washington since 9/11 and further compounded by the last presidential election, it is getting to the point that you cannot protect or defend yourself without being criminalized by all the "rules'.

Sorry, but this has been around for as long as I can remember - at least 15 years.  ALL parties must be checked including the title company.  At issue, why did the loan company wait so long?  We also had a company policy that LDP/GSA was checked on EVERY party at time of submission to the underwriter.  So, if this bank came back to you at the 11th hour, they dropped the boat - but only in the timing of everything.

As to providing your SSN, you could have provided any # of ID's to prove you're not THE Donna Harris showing up on the list and the bank should have known that, as well.  The SSN was just the easiest to ask for, at the time.  Sounds like they AGAIN dropped the ball by not providing you options.

Bottom line - get used to it!!!  It's been around for a long time. 

 

That's a new one for me Donna.  I used to work in the mortgage industry for many years and things have really gotten a bit out of hand since I left that industry.  Making buyers jump through hoops in painful enough but when the lenders start delving into an agent's personal information, that is REALLY crossing the line, in my opinion.

Thought I would just leave this here. All public links (sharing is caring!):

LDP List:
https://www5.hud.gov/ecpcis/main/ECPCIS_List.jsp

GSA List:
https://www.epls.gov/epls/search.do?multiName=true

I don't like it as much as the next person but you gotta do what you gotta do for your clients. I have not run into having to ask an agent for a SSN but have had to ask for a drivers license to get a middle initial and clear up the alert. We have an appraiser on our list that this comes up on every appraisal he does for us. Adding the middle initial clears it up every time!

And yes, we do it on all loan files including conventional. Fannie Mae implemented what they call their Loan Quality Initiative (LQI for short) and if you read it, effective June 1, 2010 "Validation of qualified parties: require use of GSA and HUD excluded party lists".

You can read it yourself here: https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/lqi/
or the summary with key dates here: https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/lqi/pdf/lqisummary.pdf (PDF)

Like I said, I don't like it either but it's here to stay.

I was livid when asked, as the Listing Agent, for copies of both my driving license and SS card to the lender bank, Wells Fargo.  As it was the final condition for these borrowers' loan, I took a deep breath, said some choice words about invasion of privacy and crass stupidity and provided both.  It closed. 

 

Standing on my hind legs at that stage would not have served the Sellers, my clients, in the least, but it sure was tempting.  I'm only glad I cannot for now think of what they'll be asking for next.

When you think you have heard everything then something like this pops up! Thing truly are upside down and inside out! Thanks for the heads up.

Welcome to the world of BIG BROTHER and profit police! Scary but very very REAL. Remember in NOVEMBER to take the government down a notch, before we all have chips implanted inside us...

Now Donna's face will be posted at airports, all public buildings, the IRS, public schools.  I have a seller whose INS card is invalid.  Hope I don't get deported as well.  Thx for the info....don't like it, but there are things we need to know that we don't like.  See ya

Now Donna's face will be posted at airports, all public buildings, the IRS, public schools.  I have a seller whose INS card is invalid.  Hope I don't get deported as well.  Thx for the info....don't like it, but there are things we need to know that we don't like.  See ya

Donna - I completely understand!  This is becoming more and more of a problem.  For short sales for you to even be authorized to speak on behalf of your seller, most of the banks are requiring my SS# as well.

If you refuse to provide it the only way for the lender (or loss mitigator, or negotiator, or anyone else from who knows where) to speak with you is to have your seller in the room so the lender's representative can ask the seller secret questions, the answer to which only your seller would know - needless to say, that isn't happening on the weekly calls we're making!

I'd like to know from NAR why lenders are getting away with this?  At the last closing, before I could pick up the commission check (which by the way is going to my broker), I had to provide my SS#! 

Just one more thing that makes life wonderful in the bank relationship business.

The banks and the government are completely out of control. Cleaning house in November is a MUST.

crazy!

I would feel my blood boiling if they asked me for mine.  Then I would have to think about it and then finally give in. Damn it!

I found my original SS card - it says "NOT FOR ID PURPOSES".

It's just plain dumb.  I remember a time when a bank or any business for that matter had to make money to survive.  For a bank to survive they had to make loans to qualified people and charge interest on that loan.  The system seems to be broken now.  There is no common sense.  I was talking to a banker at Wells Fargo the other day and he referenced a doctor that was putting $700,000 down on a million dollar home and they denied him!  Are you kidding me?  I would lend that guy the $300,000, if I had it, and hope he does'nt pay so I can have the house!

The lenders have had to check these lists for years.  Apparently another woman with my name was on the list, and for one transaction they just asked me to list the place (city) of my residence for the last 10 years and they were able to conclude we were two different people.  Get used to it.  With all the mortgage fraud that has and still continues to go on, they have to be more careful. 

Melissa, HOW DISAPPOINTED i AM THAT YOU SOLD OUT YOUR INTEGRITY and yielded to the pressure of a lender. It's because of these tactics that MONOPOLY is alive and well in America today.  Corporations are calling the shots. 

If brokers and agents remain rational, professional, and calm, they can merely refuse.  Did your clients know they wanted this information?  Hopefully you disclosed, and you should have told them you refuse.

A professional reply to the lender 'clerk' handling this file should have been:

"In order to be compliant with your highly unusual request, kindly forward to me in writing the company policy in which this request for an agent's social security number is relevant and necessary."

That should already stop them from wasting precious time.  However: If they produce it, you can have your attorney peruse it.  You would have been advised that the burden is on the GSA to disprove that you are the person on the 'list'.  They have such further documentation, and should have asked a different question for a spot check identity.  Moreover, since your fingerprints and other sensitive records are on file with the TAR, not to mention the DMV in your state, they'd have all the 'proof' they need.

Frankly, it's because of agents like yourself succumbing to these irrational and illegal requests that lenders are getting away with it.  Once that door is opened...anything goes. 

Shame on YOU!!

 I completely agree wtih Marte Cliff above, that both lenders and the government are OUT OF CONTROL and that a housekeeping VOTE is DEFINITELY in order this coming November. 

Shame on US if we DON"T VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE IN NOVEMBER!

This is ridiculous! Thanks for the heads up, I have a common name as well. I'd sure hate to be John Smith right about now.

WOW that sounds a little crazy!

This has definitely struck a cord with a lot of people. Thank you for all the comments. And I'm also still going through all the individual emails as well, but I'll just post a final thought here...

YES, I gave them my social. I wasn't going to jeopardize my buyers' loan because of something so idiotic.  Many of the lenders have chimed in that this has been going on for years. However, this other Donna Harris has been on the "list" since 2001, and I've only been a Harris since 2005, yet I have NEVER been asked to verify myself previously. If it's something that has been required for so long, it should have come up 5 years ago when I first changed my name. It makes no sense that it just happened to come up now.

And that's fine if my picture is posted all over, as long as it says something like, "If you're looking to buy or sell, contact Donna!"

You can refuse to place your Social Security Number on the loan packet, if you wish, but this will trigger a cascade of consequences, such as:

1) Adding your first born child to the No Fly List;

2) A National Security Agency investigation of your pets;

3) Threatening phone calls to your neighbors which have your phone number attached to them....

and worst of all.....

A tersly worded note to your mother!

I'd be careful if I were you!

Oh, did I mention that your clients may not get their loan?

 

My family just closed the sale on my mom's house.  We as the sellers had to sign a paper stating that we were not non-resident aliens.  Now WTF is that??  Excuse me??  I just signed a paper stating I was a legal US citizen!!  It is redicilous all the papers someone is asked to signed due to selling or buying property!  And now they don't even notarize your signature......just have to see your ID.

That sounds crazy, but you are probably between a rock and a hard place.  Their reasoning, though flawed, is just to make sure you are not the same person on their list.

That is government regulation, you can't make sense out of it, in any environment!

We don't know what to expect next.  Hope this goes through for you and your buyer.  Margaret C.

This does sound crazy! Makes you wonder what caliber of people they actually have hired as under writers. They obviously don't know the difference between a Gov loan and conventional.

Wow Donna,

 I have never heard of this one but in today's market place they are just looking to cover themselves. Rodney #28 has it right. Good call Rodney!

WOW! In this day & age of ID theft, you are wise to be careful and not disclose your personal info. I know you said you did give it verbally, but how can you be sure that the other person didn't write it down?

Rodney, how long has this system been in place? It seems that the RE world should have been informed of this "requirement" to do business.

 

thats a new one! 

I agree it's ridiculous some of the hoops we lenders have to go through. I think one thing most people in this thread are not realizing is that it is not a "lender" requirement. It is a "government" requirement. We have to abide by the law if we want to stay in the business.

If you look at the many fraud cases it usually takes a lender, real estate agent, appraiser and sometimes an attorney to perpetrate the fraud. Rarely is it only a lender involved in the fraud. Keep in mind everyone in our company that touches the loan (processor, closer, etc.) has to give their SS#. The closing attorney is giving his. You would think if it wasn't necessary an attorney would be the first to stand up and say no.

Another reason these lists are checked is for terrorist activity involving money laundering. Real estate is one of the best ways to launder large sums of money.

Please remember, we don't like any more than you do. Unfortunately the government is now a bigger part of our lives and who knows where it's going to end.

Thanks for the heads up.  Not heard this before but I will not be too shocked when it happens to me.  Very unpleasant to go through.  Good luck.

Sounds like the majority of you are not aware of this new twist to the process. For the last couple of months we originators have had to run all parties thru the "exclued parties list" and the "Hud limited denial list". All parties are run by name. If your name comes up then they need to verify that YOU are not the person who has been denied.

Lenders take no chances these days that the loan is going to get kicked back to them after it is sold. If a loan is not performing the purchaser of that loan is going to look for every reason to make the lender buy it back. Thus all the caution.

I've only had one person show up with a similar name and the underwriter asked for his birth date, not ss #. I understand, I am very cautious about where I put my SS # out there. Hopefully you were dealing with a lender you know well. It is frustrating, but it is another way the people who commited fraud are being shut down.

Try this on for size:

I'd rather live with some of the fraud than to live under the legislated stupidity that comes from this government.  In an effort to curb alleged fraud, they are criminalizing far more than they're catching. 

 

 

Donna, I've decided that I agree with Mike #137 as long as I get to decide which fraud is OK and which isn't.

I can't imagine my business wouldn't quadruple.

Donna I would try to figure out who you offended and why.  Old student Loan?  This could be a big problem for you down the line.  Of course it could be a different Donna Harris!

Donna:  Makes you wonder what they're going to come up with next!  Carrie

Hello. I'm from the government and I'm hear to help you.

This sort of thing is getting worse and worse. That one is creative, though. And has not happened to me here in Tucson. Maybe your local people are being extra snoopy.

Sorry, i'm here to help you! Duh. You'd think I WAS from the government!

Hi Donna,

I have not had this become an issue before. You can always count on something new popping up during a transaction. What did you end up doing? Did the Lender make this a pre-funding condition of the loan? I would be very uncomfortable giving out my social in this situation.

And when Social Security was instituted, and there was outrage at being assigned a number and required to have it, the Government promised that it would NEVER be used for anything but Social Security, and that you would NEVER be required to give it out for any other purpose (even to another governmental agency). 

Even today, when we have to give it in order to get our Texas driver's license (or get it renewed), special permission had to be received by the State of Texas DPS to require it (to "track child support evaders", they say), and that information is posted prominently at the DPS office where you get your license.  

In this day and age of identity theft (and, yes, I know personally what a pain even a minor case of it can cause for YEARS), for them to expect you to give your SSN just because they ask, on a loan that you will not be paying or responsible for, is outrageous. 

I, for one, would require something in writing verifying that it is, indeed, the lender asking for it, and citing the exact law that allows them to require this information of me, before I'd give it to them, and even then, only under protest.  

It's appalling what we've allowed to happen to our country! And, again, it comes back to that quote that is SO apropos so shockingly often these days, by Benjamin Franklin:

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

Shame on us.

One of the main reasons the economy is lagging is from lack of lending. Not only are people overburdened with debt, but even those who are not are under so much scrutinty that they are not able to borrow. Banks need to lighten up a little, even in commercial lending.

If you look on the Social Security card it said it is NOT to be used for ID purposes. But we are asked to show it for everything. How did that happen?

This seems ridiculous.  Or course, the whole regulation thing as gotten out of hand, and the government said when they created SSNs they'd never be used for identification purpose - yeah right!

Now a days I have to use these affermations to keep my sanity. Lenders are my friends, lenders are my friends, lenders are my friends. I know I am brainwashing myself but it's the only thing I can do to keep from go nuts over their crazy requirements.

Fred in Florida

Here is the Link http://www.hud.gov/offices/enforce/ecmemo.cfm  for the 

Limited Denial of Participation

https://www.epls.gov/  sorry the real link  The Excluded Parties List System (EPLS) includes information regarding entities debarred, suspended, proposed for debarment, excluded or disqualified under the nonprocurement common rule, or otherwise declared ineligible from receiving Federal contracts, certain subcontracts, and certain Federal assistance and benefits. This information may include names, addresses, DUNS numbers, Social Security Numbers, Employer Identification Numbers or other Taxpayer Identification Numbers, if available and deemed appropriate and permissible to publish by the agency taking the action. Please be aware that although GSA operates this system, individual agencies are responsible for the timely reporting, maintenance, and accuracy of their data.

That is a new one on me. I have had to provide the brokerage tax I'D number a few times on foreclosures.

Since this stirred up so much debate about its existence, I wrote a more detailed post yesterday about this requirement.   This requirement applies not only to mortgage/real estate, but also anyone doing business with the government by way of contracts.

Donna.. If you ever find out why they need your SSN please let me know.  This is beyond my scope of comprehension.

And what do you say in a few years; when some unfortunate situation happens with the buyers and because your SSAN is somehow still connected to the loan, some bill collector starts contacting you for payment or information to locate the buyer?

Wow what a post and comments!!!!!

That is strange..

Donna, it's so ironic that you posted this. It JUST happened to my business partner the other week. I had never heard of it before, either, but the loan officer was very reputable and, even though she wasn't very comfortable with it, she ended up giving them a copy of her SS card. I agree, I don't know why they need that info from US. Thanks for sharing your experience.

WOW, there is some good info on this post.  Transactions are getting more & more challenging every day!  Never know what to expect next.

WOW, there is some good info on this post.  Transactions are getting more & more challenging every day!  Never know what to expect next.

Donna - Just to make doubly triply sure you are not a bad guy, and the brokers are not bad guys, and the other agent is not a bad guy, and the seller is not a bad guy....this just HAS to be done. HAS to.

Notice who's not subject to this much scrutiny?  LENDERS.

Something is beyond whacked out with this picture.

So sorry Donna!  The abuse of all parties to a transaction has become increasingly absurd!!  Buying a home used to be a joyful occasion.  Now, the unrelenting number of hoops to jump through to get a loan is one of the most stressful and challenging transactions!  Thanks Washington!!

This is a weird one. I've seen it all now. Trying to stifle forward movement? These are all delay tactics and checks and balances that the lending institution is juxtaposing in order to make their numbers look better

I'm sure glad someone explained this one.  You just don't know what you are going to have to do any more to get a loan to go through.  

Wow, I'm not sure I'd have been willing to give up my SSN.  But if I didn't, I'd hate to have to explain to the buyer, "Yeah, we could close if I gave up MY info, but that's unreasonable and I'm unwilling to do so."  What a predicament!

I know I'm late to the party on this post, but I am on this "list" as well.  I refuse to offer my personal information to the lender-I send them a copy of my real estate license and that seems to work, sometimes with a written statment "I am not "black list name" and I have never lived in "black list area".  You will have this problem with every deal (I do) I suggest you start to use your middle initial (hopefully it's different) mine is, and when I remember to use it, I have no issues.  You do NOT need to provide your social security.  One lender told me to send him my drivers license...nope...sorry...

Wow, how did I miss this one? Good thing Larry featured it in his mortgage update today.

No I didn't read all the comments but am shocked, as I have not seen it before. I will have to read up on it.

 

The next thing you know is that buyers and real estate agents will have to do a DNA test! This is incredible!

This is not new... I've had to pull two different Fed checks for any Federally insured mortgage loan on real estate agents, the RE firms, the closing agents and firms, and settlement agents for many years, both as an LO for a large bank and as an owner of a correspondent lender. Occasionally I'd get a "hit" by name on an RE agent, and we'd have to get more info to be sure.

In fact, every one of you who was sold a house to a buyer using an FHA, VA, or USRDA loan has been checked against a list of HUD barred RE agents and against a list of contract defaulters to the GSA.

It's nothing to be concerned about... and it is to ensure that fraudsters are barred from Federal funds. 

On top of that, the seller is paying your brokerage, not you, directly.

They're afraid that the borrower who lost the home will try to purchase the house (or in this case it appears any other foreclosure).  I once had a buyer who was turned down by a lender for a similar reason.   This buyer had purchased his last home from a person with the same last name (only) as the borrower who was foreclosed on (for the foreclosure property the buyer was purchasing).

I can understand this logic...in fact it would not be fair unless we could all give back our homes without paying for them and then purchase them again at half the price we purchased them for but they should fully research these names instead of assume and play it safe.  The bottom line is that they can lend to whomever they choose to.

My suggestion is to ask your Broker to write the offer for your buyer under his or her name.

It's happened around here also. If your name is on the "fraud list", you have to prove it's not you. More government intrusion and they always go over board.

Another way to delay closings. What's the old saying? Hi, we're with the government and we're here to help you!

Not sure what everyone is so freaked out about! I would be happy to prove I'm not a stinking crook.

I really like your post hope to read more from you.

Regard,

Epoyjun